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What's your take on knocking the competition? |
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When I posted this thread around a month ago on LinkedIn who would have known how it would turn out ... all nice and polite or would the gloves come off ... luckily Marina was in there to calm it down :)
(If a thread on our LinkedIn group gets more than 10 entries then we add them to one of our media channels and max the exposure to the world ... this has had 38 comments todate) If you would like to join in the discussion, you can at: What's your take on knocking the competition? What's your take on knocking the competition? This evening, 23rd July, I was made aware of some content being placed on BinB that is having a pop at a number of competitors. I've put the call out to my client to have a conversation around marketing strategies and perhaps this is not the best move he has made and see if we can't get him back on track ... But what's your take, do you knock your competition in your marketing or sales talk? Andrew Palmer • If you have to knock your competition in public, you have no USP - its that simple. Andy Hamer FCIM • Its has to be qualified comparison against services or product features that OK, but just to generally knock or bad mouth your competitors is really not a good idea. Andy Mileham • V bad form, that I'm afraid John. It is vital that every business knows the strengths and weaknesses of its competition, but dont bad mouth them to clients and definately dont do it in public. Martin Vessey • Differentiate your own business within your own market - never knock the competition, even if asked - Mark D Harris • Totally agree, there's just no need to do it, if your proposition is clearly differentiated. Comparative advertising is becoming more common though isn't it - e.g Sky are doing it to BT at the moment re Sky sports deals. David Knowles-Leak • Knocking the competition is a self-defeating exercise, you will end up looking like a politician. Gavin Peck • Never, ever do it - period. Richard Knight • Dont do it - you never know when it will come back and bite you on the bum. Its also not prefessional and can damage your own credibility. By the way Jon, I love you. Brian Smith • Of course you don't 'knock' the competition but you can thwart it. "Know your enemy", said Field Marshall Montgomey. He had a picture of Rommell in his caravan (office) and looked at it every day during battle in an attempt to get into his mind and understand his moves. I have always prescribed to knowing the enemy on behalf of all my clients by researching their every move, their every marketing tactic, the way they reveal themselves in press and PR reports, how they innovate or whether they stagnate. This is how my clients have 'knocked' (sorry thwarted) their competition. They have been armed, they know where the enemy is and how it thinks. Then all they have to do is undermine them slowly but remorselessly over time by developing strategy and tactics against a thoroughly researched marketplace. It's called - gaining market share. If your company or business wants to steal a march - hire me! Jules James • It's unprofessional. Reflects you either a) have inferiority complex / low self esteem / lack of confidence in your own brand/service offering or b) you are arrogant. Either way, it would have potential client running for the hills. Sanda Ionescu • I like Martin's comment about 'don't do it, even when asked' - because some clients do like to hear a bit of gossip or apply the divide and conquer mentality. Refuse to play that game - it just makes you look desperate. I have always had huge respect for those companies who will even refer you to their competitors if they can't help you with a particular product or service. It shows they have huge confidence in what they do do! But I agree with Brian - you need to really know your competition, too. Tony Silver • It shows a hint of desperation and would be seen to be unprofessional. Any company that does this is not one many people would want to be associated with. There are ways to do this though and the clever ones that leave it to your imagination and the best Ian Smith • If you knock your competitors it shows you're worried about them. Two examples emphasise the point: Ryanair knocks all its competitors - Easyjet, Aer Lingus, BA and all. Ryanair is famous for competing on price and nothing else. What impression do they give? The company that charges extra for toilets and wheelchairs. No pretence at any kind of value-add. Then there's Virgin Trains campaign against competitor Chiltern Railways. Virgin’s advertising campaign is regarded as one of the most aggressive ever against a fellow train operator. They placed a series of large posters denigrating Chiltern Railways’ service right outside a number of its key stations. The posters include one headlined Chiltern Snailways in reference to the company’s London-Birmingham journey time. Chiltern’s quickest journey on the route is 2hrs 10mins which is 50 minutes slower than Virgin’s 1hr 20mins. Another poster includes the statement ‘Time is money, Chiltern Railways haven’t quite grasped this’. But that was the whole point - many people are using Chiltern rather than Virgin to avoid rip-off fares - an extra 50 minutes travelling each way saves them something like £80. By knocking their competitor Virgin are drawing attention to their own high pricing. It's called shooting yourself in the foot, and that's what knocking your competitors does for you. Maria Sadler • I agree with all the above - you should differentiate yourself and your business and if you need to knock the competition to win business maybe that job/contract isn't right for you anyway. There is always the chance that at some point you may want to collaborate with the 'competition' too. I have a network of contacts that I share work with depending on our specialisation That way you can offer more to the client than you alone might be able to handle. I think it is quite acceptable to point out honestly how you differ from the competition, and therefore why your prices may be higher or lower, this gains the client's trust. Adam Clark • I disagree... But I would... If you do it in a 'fair way' it shows a mature way of demonstrating comparison... rather than looking like a 'knock'. There are over 400 companies in the Thames Valley area offering web design and build services. This ranges from one man band, printers that happen to have someone in house that can knock up some HTML, design agencies that think they can do the web (but use really teeny fonts 'cos that's what they do in print work) and host of other people who whack "Web Design" on their service offerings list.. IT support companies etc etc... 80% of these businesses build websites that are utter disaster zones. Their code is illegal (like still in tables). Their design is flawed. Their usability is a non-event. They give it away at a useless price 'cos they are doing it from their bedroom or something similar. Sometimes, you just have to say... that work is rubbish. It's like eating in a restaurant and getting mushy, soggy veg and over cooked, tough meat with lumpy mash... you know it's rubbish. So say it's rubbish. And explain why... Sometimes your competition are rubbish. And the client needs to be educated as to why they are rubbish. I say... 'professionally knock' the competition as much as you can when you work in a marketplace that is basically generic (no USP as said above) and it is cut-throat prices... and the customer has no idea so they are being peddled soggy veg when they could have great food. So, if you're going to knock your competition, you need a tangible example of why they fall down on that criteria. Also, I recommend also finding some good things about them to show fairness. But, at the end of the day, if the client says, "Why are they £1000 cheaper"... you have to say, "Because they used a $35 template that you'll see on 200 other sites... or because they used the same layout as every other bloomin' site in their portfolio... because they don't have any marketing or web qualifications... because they don't add any strategic value... because they are discounting the web design but forcing you to sign up to expensive on-going hosting costs... Know your enemy... And make sure your client is fully aware as to why they aren't up to it. Also know your friends. We would happily recommend about 15 other agencies in the area because we think they're great and they do just as good a job (if not better) than us. It's all about framing.. Pure "knocking" is wrong. But clients often want to know why there are differences in things - especially services as they are less tangible. Steve Denby • I've found that announcing what we do differant seems to work for people, we don't mentioned specific competitors but refer to what "others" offer and then set out how we do things differantly - example here at bottom of the page: letn.co.uk/cloud-services/c/overview/ this is all based on what our customers tell us they like about our service or is the reason they chose us. Alison Crook • I actually loved the fact that Adam Clark was controversial in his opening line - something I intended to do when I read all the other replies who were saying more or less the same thing. To stand out from the crowd, sometimes you need to do things differently and Adam has certainly done that on this forum. My business is all about "Standing out from the Crowd" to get yourself noticed and even though Adam started out sounding like he was being controversial, in fact he was stating exactly what others set out to say BUT he included FACTS and reasons to support his argument. We obviously all agree it is bad manners and poor business etiquette to belittle a competitor to win business, but absolutely OK to point out the USP of our company. Well done Adam!! Adam Clark • Thanks Alison... yes.. i am afraid I find it hard to keep my opinion 'safe'... it hasn't done me too many favours in the corporate world. But I have found MDs of SME's actually like the truth - even if it hurts. (of course - backed up by investigation, facts and hard-knocks experience)... And I do get a certain (twisted?) pleasure in telling them. Needless to say, it's really helped some clients. And, of course, others have shown me the door... but I am me... and that's better than being swallowed up by the corporate machines. I like the sound of your business. Purple Cows we shall all be. LOL.. Do you have a web link I can look at? Shane Hicks • If asked about competing companys we tend to praise them (not to much mind). Our product and service Absolutley speaks for itself and will shine through everytime. Also by being positive and transparent around the client tends to lead to more work anyway. Adam Clark • Shane... Wow... You're Berkshire's number one commercial printer according to your website. I'm really unclear how your product and service absolutely speaks for itself. How are you Berkshire's number 1 printer? By Turnover, Speed, Technology? Smiley faces? 'Cos you say so? There is nothing stated on your website that isn't on hundreds of other printer's websites. You're: Friendly Personal Service Willing to bend over backwards And you do: Well... everything that most other printers say they do. You do some fulfilment too I guess and you seem to do print on demand... but loads of printers do this too. I am really really interested to know how your product and service speaks for itself. And how you are Berkshire's No1 printer. With respect, your website looks pretty terrible from a design perspective and your logo looks amateur. No wonder your web agency Bell went out of business in 2009... run-print-run.co.uk Shane Hicks • thank you for your kind words Adam Clark • Well they weren't kind words really Shane...now were they... Seriously... I am challenging you for your own good. You state on your website that you are the No1 commercial printer in Berkshire. Or have I got the wrong website? If so, I apologise. If you are the No1 printers, you need to be damn sure of why. And your offering appears generic. So, how does your product and service 'shine through' so clearly... I'm looking for it... and I can't see it. If your prospects aren't looking for it, then they are surely going to miss it. We both offer a service (i do marketing and web consultancy)...Printing quality is pretty high now-adays across the board so people probably use you for periphery things (like your online on-demand service, customer service etc). Which I am sure are great... So, you need tangible reasons on your communications that are articulated clearly as to why your service is so good. Things like. We have a high account manager to cient ratio... we have the latest project monitoring software to ensure delivery... we're ISO9001 compliant... If you don't think your website is poor, then I recommend you take a big deep breath and have a look round 'cos it is. It is poor from multiple perspectives. It doesn't communicate your difference. It doesn't communicate your people. It doesn't deliver on personality. It just says you're No1 (BS?), been around for 15 years (so what) and is contradictory (i wont go into full details here). There aren't even any testimonials... if your product and service "Shine Through" in a generic market, you need someone elses validation other that your own. The design is weak. It's all left aligned in diddy-small fonts. It's just lists of weeeee-ing (we do this. and we do that)... And it looks like it was last updated in 2004. Thankfully, the code is compliant and not built in tables. Now, I know my website isn't perfect so I don't want this to be an "I'll sling at you if you sling at me" scenario. But you put your kneck above the line and claimed you were great... and your website says you're No1. So, I am hoping you'll re-look at your business and challenge yourself to be even better than you already are. There is always room for improvement... and please trust me when I say you have plenty of room. I genuinely hope I have helped and not offended. Andrew Palmer • Adam, I wonder what you would think of my business model? I build websites that work, I don't use Zen Cart (that's a free program isn't it)? I do use 'out of the box' solutions like Joomla, Wordpress and of course other lesser known solutions like Drupal and I even build sites using wysiwyg software - However, I also correctly title my website pages to take into account the vagaries of SEO and the fact that search engines appreciate relevant titles. I use search engine friendly urls and even keywords within content tags and sometimes I use keywords on the page. But, Google doesn't put any priority at all on keywords do they?, You as a web developer of repute would know that though - wouldn't you? Feel free to critique my sites as you have done with run print run - I can take it and then perhaps I could say something about your lack of SEO knowledge, the fact that your websites are around 10 years behind the times in design terms and the navigation is clunky, oh and Zencart is a template based system - but that would be churlish as I have never met you and I never, ever, slag off my competition, but, in your case - I don't really need to - do I? I have always regarded the word 'expert' as a misnomer - where are your qualifications, what gives you the right to call yourselves 'experts'? Experience, longevity of business or is it simply you got ten out of ten when asked questions somewhere about your genre - it is simply not good enough to say you an an expert in your field without backing that up with a qualifier - I am definitely not an expert in anything to do with the World Wide Web - its too young an industry to declare yourself as an expert - you may know a lot - but an EXPERT in the truest sense of the word - knows it all - and you Sir, clearly do not. If you live in a glass house - be careful who you throw stones at... Because none of us are perfect and that, Mr Clark - means you too. Alison Crook • Hmm boys now lets stop all this nonsense - it will do no one any good. Adam, when I said I liked reading some "controversial" views I didnt mean I enjoyed people or companies being belittled for no good reason. I think you have actually overstepped the mark as I can see no reason for you to critique the Print website in such a visibily rude manner. There are places for debating and on here is one of them however I suggest that this thread is stopped immediately as it is going nowhere. Not everything I do is perfect so dont try throwing that one in!! I am the peacemaker here and I just think you need to either take the argument offline or wrap it up. Enjoy your weekend! Shane Hicks • Good for you Alison! I certanly dont want to get personall at all and as you quite rightly say we all make mistakes but i would imagine that most of us her are pretty damm good at what we do an i too would like to wish ALL and that means ALL of you a great weekend. Perhaps next week we can find ways of working together. Andrew Palmer • Alison, a good point well made - I have no argument - just simply that in my opinion Adam did overstep the mark and frankly so have I - I am happy for my comments to remain on here - but if Jon the 'moderator' feels they should be removed, I have no issue with that either. - Have a good weekend yourself.... Richard Knight • This is almost starting to be like a facebook discussion I have with my kids. If you dont want people to see certain things then don't write them where they are open for all and sundry. As Busby (BT) used to say (now showing my age) - "Its good to talk " and maybe this is now what needs to happen. I have enjoyed reading some of the comments as it was an interesting discussion but I now feel the discussion ought to stop. Have a strong beginning one and all and hope August will be good for you all Adam Clark • Now you see ladies & gentlemen.. things are hotting up a treat. Much more interesting that some dull corporate "Be Nice" kinda topic. Richard.... don't fret... we're all here to push people to be better than they were yesterday. In real terms, if I get a print job, I might just ask Shane for a quote now. And it's not personal.. Andrew has highlighted a really valid 'weakness' of ours (SEO). Hopefully, Shane will re-think his website in a new light. If we all pat each other on the back and say, "well done" when it's pants, we just all run around thinking we're great. When we're not. We can always always be better. I'd rather someone told me to my face that my breath was smelly and offered me a mint... rather than whispering it behind closed doors and letting me go on putting people off their lunch. For your info though... ZenCart is an out of the box, open source, solution for shopping carts - like Joomla is an out of the box open source solution for Content Management (CMS) as is Drupal, WordPress and our little own CMS - which my sites are currently run on. You can get templates for them all. But you can also build completely bespoke designs for them all. By using Joomla, you can have 'friendly URLs'.. which is nice. But we only just built that bit into our CMS so our own website (as usual) is one of the last to actually have it. I am considered an expert by at least 4 other creative agencies in the area and paid well to advise them on Digital Marketing and the web in particular. And part of my advice on SEO is... don't get hung up on SEO. I'd rather build my brand other ways. I am not prepared to spend the time, money or effort pandering to a machine (Google) who thinks they know better than me. There are 400-500 (probably more) design, marketing, print and freelancers out there doing what we do. Some of our clients may need SEO and we pass them onto someone else for this service. My belief is that, for the time and energy it takes to do it really really properly, you could have attended an exhibition or hired a sales person. We pay lip services by putting in some titles and stuff. But I want to write what I want to write... not be thinking about how many times I can squeeze in a key phrase or whatever. Also, our navigation is clunky - Andrew is right. But a few of our clients are public sector so we like to demonstrate simplicity and don't use any javascript or the like with our navigation... all pure CSS. An expert does not know it all. I do not know it all. I never claimed to. In fact, my website says, "We're experts at enhancing and developing a company's marketing and promotions"... it says nothing about SEO really. On our new site oobainteractive.co.uk - we're rebranding ... we say that we don't do it. In fact, there is some real useful stuff on there about our "Web Brand/SEO Loop" that we talk to clients about ... check it out. oobainteractive.co.uk/index.php?pageID=111 I would love to critique your websites... but I can't find your portfolio. Adam Clark • PS: If honesty is rude... I would rather be rude. If my partner asks me if she looks bad in something and I say, "Yes"... she knows it's true. But when I say that she looks fantastic. She knows I really mean it. Soggy veg, lumpy mash potato and hard pork chop is awful food. If your gran cooked it, you can be 'nice' and say it's just yummy. If it's your business, you need to sack the chef. Andrew Palmer • Oops - I did say I was not perfect - Fill your boots In Joomla you can actually provide a bespoke website too. medkitchen.co.uk cafemed.co.uk boulevardbrasserie.co.uk boulevardsoho.com/ hanzak.com vulcascot.com lesleyeverett.com (cloned from an html site done by a developer in Canada) Oh and I know what you mean by Soggy Veg - yourownchef.co.uk Matt Davis • Not that I'm obsessed about dragging this thread back on topic or anything, but... I've been imagining how this thread would have gone if we were in Berkshire, USA. Whatever... Between Martin Vassey and Adam Clark's points, both of which we probably all take on board, could it be generalised that 'knocking competition' would be a process where we haven't really studied our competition and just diss them generally. In another life, I watched suppliers do this and it got messy. For which the following epithet summed it up: never wrestle with a pig. You both get covered in 'stuff', and the pig enjoys it. As Apple have recently found out with their antenna issues. Andrew Palmer • Perhaps we all need to take a look at this great article as posted by a wise man - grahamjones.co.uk/blog/internet-psychology/take-care-when-you-comment-online.html I certainly do not knock my competition but I do compare - I think it is only fair for customers to know what they are getting for their hard earned cash - commitment is very high up on the list and as such we as a company try our very best to ensure that we are visible, contactable and accountable. What I do abhor is open criticism of a company - client or supplier, trying to do their best to survive in a harsh market place. Criticism is always good, nastiness is not and is unnecessary - there, hope I am back on topic..... Adam Clark • Makes sense. Logically. Negative comments make you a negative person. Sounds like it makes sense. But what if you had a passion for making things/people/business better... better because they can be... better because, with a kick in the butt, they could be great... I have a name in my head... Simon Cowell. I think we should all say what we believe... and ignore the 'booos' from those who just want everything to be "OK". If that hurts someone a bit, then maybe they'll go away, get some singing lessons and come back a star. Don't just be 'nice' all the time. It's dull. Can you imagine X-Factor if all the judges were saying, "You guys are great... Amazing... you're number 1.... but you're not through to the next round... love ya ... bye.. mwah... bye...". Dull.. and harmful to the contestants. So... don't only make contact with people who tell you that you're great... that's how businesses fail. Surround yourself by people who will honestly slap you in the face and make you a better person. Simon Cowell is actually a pretty nice guy who people flock to to try and get his insight and judgement... and Gordon Ramsey... and Duncan Bannatyne... and... I could go on... But they are harsh when you're not up to the mark.... Even Seth Godin has a whole website about things that are 'broken'. Sounds negative.. but really highlights how to do things better. Marina Duskov • Hi Adam, I am in business of personal development in 'Discovering Your Passions'. If you are passionate for making things/people/business better - I suggest to focus on distinctions and increasing someone awareness in making them aware of or conscious of something they have not been before. However there is also being appropriate in making your comment heard because they ask for it and in a way that person will receive the gift rather then defend or reject your comment. Confrontation can be good if it is coming from a good places as they say it is not what you say it is how you say it. As Mother Teresa says 'People don't want to know how much you know, people want to know how much you care'. As this topic is about competition for me is about making a distinction that separates my business from other similar type businesses, as mentioned in previous comments. Knowing and educating others in what it is it that you provide that is your Unique selling point and different is useful. Also, making differences clear can allow making decision easier. Adam Clark • Marina... I welcome your insight. And you have re-aligned my thinking. Thank you !.You're right... no-one asked for my knowledge. I gave it for the right reasons.. but in the wrong way. And I gave it in strong terms. If I had maybe offered my help and then waited to have been asked, maybe it would have been more appropriate. Thank you ! Marina Duskov • Hi Adam, You are welcome. I have been on the giving and the receiving end of various coments and as wise saying goes " In all things act as you would have others react to you." by The Story Teller Smiles Marina Jon Davey • let me step in shane ... adam, i have found in my experience that many companies that have shit websites actually generate a ton of sales because they have 1 or 2 people in the organisation that are brilliant at sales which means rather than expecting a pretty website, produced by marketing, to generate the revenue needed to fund a globe trotting lifestyle, they get off their arses, rattle on some doors and ensure each and every client is happy all the way with the friendly, personal service they get ... this means they come back for more ... the guy behind run print run has a number of business allowing him wake up in the morning, smile, hop into his top end bmw and decide which way to go ... to the office or to the airport and a spot of golf in the sun. and for the right fee he'll bend over backwards :) how do i know this ... because currently we're doing some preliminary research in how to move his print business forward. love your contributions but please don't hijack threads when someone says you're funny as it can bring them to an end ... like mentioning the war ... and at the end of the day BinB is under my wing and if i feel someone is out of line, being a little rude or making too much noise then i'll step in and ask them to calm down ... thank you jon davey social media director part time bouncer :) Jon Davey • just seen marina's comment ... missed that more button ... thank you marina for your positive diplomatic contribution ... he heard you ... i didn't really need to step in after that but hey a little reinforcement doesn't go a miss :) Marina, go get a copy of a book by Fiona Challis, it's an excellent read and may help you in your mission ... better still it took me, a slowish reader, only 4 hours to read through ... it will take me 4 days to think through and apply ... http://www.sponsortheshed.co.uk/extra4.html ... you might like a copy also Adam ... in fact, we could all do with having a read ... fill your boots :) |
